Jacqui M
Professional Wrestler
Posts: 40
|
Post by Jacqui M on Nov 25, 2019 18:45:06 GMT -5
That is not a joke title. Nine years in and I still can't do it like the cool kids. Somebody gonna have to teach me.
|
|
|
Post by Quixote Della Torre on Nov 25, 2019 19:39:45 GMT -5
Pasternak incoming… " just write mean words" I've never been a World Champ or anything so I want to invite three people really good at shoot who've won lots of stuff to help you - Odin Balfore, 𝗖𝗢𝗥𝗘𝗬 𝗕𝗟𝗔𝗖𝗞 and Lockhart. Guys, can you advise? Mate, you're a very good writer so I do hope you can add whatever pieces of the puzzle you need.
|
|
|
Post by Dandy DiVito on Nov 25, 2019 19:41:19 GMT -5
Pasternak incoming… " just write mean words" I've never been a World Champ or anything so I want to invite three people really good at shoot who've won lots of stuff to help you - Odin Balfore , 𝗖𝗢𝗥𝗘𝗬 𝗕𝗟𝗔𝗖𝗞 and Lockhart . Guys, can you advise? Mate, you're a very good writer so I do hope you can add whatever pieces of the puzzle you need. Oh, Q. I... I noticed I wasn't tagged... Hmm... Just to be clear... I will cross an ocean to smack a bitch
|
|
Jacqui M
Professional Wrestler
Posts: 40
|
Post by Jacqui M on Nov 25, 2019 19:53:35 GMT -5
Allow me to elaborate. I can't do what efed expects. I can't do the whole pre-teens smack talking each other thing that wins belts in this game. I usually go for more of a mind-games vibe with my heels and tweeners, or just a straight up wholesome promo with my babyfaces (because it makes no sense for a clean-cut kid-friendly 20 year old to be calling people sluts and cursing up a storm.)
As a result of the above, I never win ANYTHING except when my CD is so good, they can't deny me the win. I have all of ONE World Title (that I was allowed to keep, at least *cough*) and a couple of midcard winning streaks where in one the CD was amazing and an actual storyline, and in the second people kept walking into response promos from me and giving me ammo. Otherwise this always happens - I look like a good writer, so people put me in big time high profile matches the minute I step through the door, and I proceed to embarrass myself for a few weeks before retiring the character. I'd like to avoid that vicious cycle here, but it looks like it's already in motion...so I'm asking for your help to try and stop it.
/disillusioned midcarder rant
|
|
|
Post by Quixote Della Torre on Nov 25, 2019 20:20:52 GMT -5
Allow me to elaborate. I can't do what efed expects. I can't do the whole pre-teens smack talking each other thing that wins belts in this game. I usually go for more of a mind-games vibe with my heels and tweeners, or just a straight up wholesome promo with my babyfaces (because it makes no sense for a clean-cut kid-friendly 20 year old to be calling people sluts and cursing up a storm.) As a result of the above, I never win ANYTHING except when my CD is so good, they can't deny me the win. I have all of ONE World Title (that I was allowed to keep, at least *cough*) and a couple of midcard winning streaks where in one the CD was amazing and an actual storyline, and in the second people kept walking into response promos from me and giving me ammo. Otherwise this always happens - I look like a good writer, so people put me in big time high profile matches the minute I step through the door, and I proceed to embarrass myself for a few weeks before retiring the character. I'd like to avoid that vicious cycle here, but it looks like it's already in motion...so I'm asking for your help to try and stop it. /disillusioned midcarder rant Another suggestion - could you pose this to Torture on the Pridecast questions thread? I think a few people struggle with this issue. There's sometimes a feeling that only badass shit talkers get the big wins. I'm not sure I would agree. I personally think match relevance/world building can often sell a less direct shoot but there's a balance. I would say, though, that some people come in here and write beautiful stories but barely talk about their opponents and then get pissed when they lose. That's not you I'm referring to but it may be your word balance wasn't quite right and the shoot might've felt tacked on at the end. I don't know. You were fighting a tough battle because you were against 2 guys in particular with a really lengthy backstory in AW who are very much embroiled in the internal world. You also were trying to establish the character which is tough to do in such a big match. Also worth remembering you lost to one of our greatest here. KOS was previously known as Spencer Adams and won the World Title last year. He's beaten many of the best. You had a very tough first match. Shadowlove is amazing too. I don't know Abbi too well but she has big pedigree I hear, too. I'd imagine you defo gave the judges a lot to think about.
|
|
|
Post by 𝗖𝗢𝗥𝗘𝗬 𝗕𝗟𝗔𝗖𝗞 on Nov 25, 2019 20:24:39 GMT -5
Character stuff alone just won't do it here. That's the short of it.
You have to find your character's voice and find flaws within your opponent. I do MONDO research on people I'm against. Like a sickening amount. I find their bane, what they don't want people finding. If I have to go back to 2008 then I fucking will.
Look at what everyone else is saying about them and avoid it. Look at opponent RPs and avoid it all.
That's what I have off the top of my head, maybe I'll think of more later on!
|
|
Lockhart
Professional Wrestler
Playtime is over.
Posts: 743
|
Post by Lockhart on Nov 25, 2019 20:53:48 GMT -5
Here are some general tips
1: No surface level shoot. This is the kind of shoot that everyone expects and is the general route most people will go at to attack a character. Calling Corey Black/Odin Balfore old or trying to roast FPV/Lissie for having one week title reigns isn't going to do much except generating a "meh" response from both readers and especially the judges. They've seen it all before. Give them something fresh.
2: An easy way to do that? Research. As CD said above me, looking into their flaws and make them evident in your shoot. Dissect the actual personality of the character and find weaknesses in their mentality. This is something not many people in E-Fedding do and it immediately sets your shoot apart from the rest. You'll notice that shoots always come easier when you know a lot about a character, and imo RPs will always be of higher quality if you have some knowledge about what makes a character tick.
3: Sell the match. This is ESPECIALLY important for FACE characters. What does the match mean for your character, what is it going to do for them, why does it matter if they win or lose? If you can't explain this to your readers or the judges, they're not going to expect you to win and a lot of the times you're probably not going to win. Think about the time a face really wanted to get revenge or get back on a heel, think about the emotion and how motivated that character was/would've been, and you'll immediately see what I'm getting at. When there's a real motivation or intent behind a character, it adds layers to their shoot, their character as a whole, and gives them a real reason to be considered as a winner for a match.
Keep in mind, you can still SELL as a heel. A match can mean just as much and be just as important to a heel, and in many matches can tip the scales in your favor if you do it correctly. The reason I say it's more important for a face though, is that many face writers can struggle to find a natural way to dig deep into their opponents, which is why adding an extra element of selling the match can be vital for them.
4: Sell yourself. This is ESPECIALLY important for HEEL characters. Why are you so good? Why are you going to destroy your opponent? How are you going to do it? Why should we believe you're going to win? Don't just say you're going to beat someone up and that you're better than them, give examples of why you're better. Is your character smarter? Cool. Tell us why and bring up moments that demonstrate that. Is your character bigger, stronger, a better technician, more experienced? Bring it up, let everyone know. Are you on a winning streak against some of the cream of the crop of your division or of the fed in general and you're going to use that momentum to keep winning? Be sure to mention it.
This is how you gain credibility as a heel. The worst type of heel is the "Heel 101" guy who just says they're going to win, or that they're going to destroy you, but gives nothing of substance to back it up. These are the characters who get little credibility and struggle against top-tier heels/faces who know how to shoot.
Selling yourself as a heel is what will make or break your character. As a face, this is still important, you need to make it clear that you're not gonna just be some pushover.
Here would be my personal priorities as a shooter, and what I would work on if I wanted to be at my absolute best with a character:
For Faces: Sell Match > Research Opponents / Character Dissection > Sell Yourself
For Heels: Sell Yourself > Research Opponents / Character Dissection > Sell Match
These in my opinion are the 3 vital areas of shoot that will help you be successful, but for different characters and more generally, different alignments, the priorities are going to change. For neutral characters, base it off of your characters personality. For instance, Tweener Shadowlove would want to sell himself more than sell the match, but a Tweener KOS would probably prefer to sell the match since he doesn't need to sell himself all that much.
For some other aspects of shoot that can be important: Word count, themed/gimmick shoots and charisma are all things that can enhance or devalue your shoot, depending on what route you take.
As a general rule, if you're super competitive and serious about winning as many matches as you can, I'd recommend at least 60% of your content be match relevant.
Themed/gimmick shoots are excellent if pulled off correctly, but can really flop if you don't know what you're talking about or the theme doesn't make sense, or if it's just too cliche.
Charisma for every character is something that can be developed by getting your characters voice down, like Corey mentioned. If your character has a unique voice and a clear, iconic style behind it, you'll immediately separate yourself from the pack.
Sorry for the advice here being vague and not specifically targeted toward you, but I just thought I'd leave this here for anyone new or old to the fed who wanted some general tips that they can apply to their game. Anyone feel free to ask questions if you want things elaborated on.
|
|
|
Post by Quixote Della Torre on Nov 25, 2019 21:03:07 GMT -5
Another thing to say is that it's perfectly fine to do big character development pieces on the AW Network. You can even link to it in your RP as an addendum. It won't be judged and may not be as widely read as RPs but it allows you to tell more of the backstory. This allows the RP to be more shoot heavy. I don't think there's a formula as such but a good ratio might be 50:50 shoot to CD or even more towards shoot. Also, a skill is weaving the shoot into character development and vice versa rather than always seeing them in a segmented fashion. Agreed with Corey on the research... but sometimes one can go too far. Before Evolution 2, I spent like 60 hours going through Wade Moor/Leviathan's history in WCF/UCI/AW and even created a big ass Google Doc with his entire match history and milestones. I even sent it to him for his amusement after the match. Anyway, I lost haha. Then again, even 500 hours of research wasn't gonna beat that RP he put out. Sometimes I go through old shit and add in little details to try to "pop the boys" (especially bits they've forgot they wrote). I would suggest that the research approach is good for confident RPers but if you're going through some self doubt, it can become a bit of a displacement, procrastination activity that can distract from trusting your instincts and getting shit written. I have quite a few tricks for the 700 word cap but I won't share them right now. At least before the CW Rumble The shit talking aspect of shoot is good but I think there's great value in persuasion. Why should your wrestler win? How morally (or immorally... but most people tend to think they are in the right) is your character superior to the opponent? Motifs/themes can be awesome. There's a big trap of getting overly elaborate or gimmicky though so use with caution. I love shoot that feels guided and focused. It's hard to explain. The best shoot for me is where the character is taking us on a journey of ammunition with every bullet feeling fresh but interconnected thematically and within the character's worldview. Then, if you can absolutely nail the ending with a killer line that wraps it all up... BOOM. Many of us subconsciously go away with a higher impression of a shoot if the final line is impactful. As Corey said, there is a certain shoot approach that more often than not will be rewarded here. That's kind of the way it is. However, I've found that there's still a lot of scope for telling stories. I think my grounding as a Cruiserweight helped a lot when I moved to 4K because I was already very comfortable with brevity and maximising words so it felt a luxury to move to a higher word count. I'd absolutely recommend someone spend time mastering the 700 words (or 1K words in the TV division) as kinda training wheels for 4K. It doesn't necessarily work for everyone but I think it can be good for those who need to maybe gain more focus. Please note that the above is very general and doesn't relate much specifically to what I've seen from you. Once we get to know you more, I'm sure there's people here who can give you very good advice. Taking up Guru Daddy's offer in your feedback thread would be one of the best things you could do. His style isn't always uber direct and trash talky, which is refreshing, and he's super effective and a top guy to work with.
|
|
|
Post by Quixote Della Torre on Nov 25, 2019 21:04:55 GMT -5
Here are some general tips 1: No surface level shoot. This is the kind of shoot that everyone expects and is the general route most people will go at to attack a character. Calling Corey Black/Odin Balfore old or trying to roast FPV/Lissie for having one week title reigns isn't going to do much except generating a "meh" response from both readers and especially the judges. They've seen it all before. Give them something fresh. 2: An easy way to do that? Research. As CD said above me, looking into their flaws and make them evident in your shoot. Dissect the actual personality of the character and find weaknesses in their mentality. This is something not many people in E-Fedding do and it immediately sets your shoot apart from the rest. You'll notice that shoots always come easier when you know a lot about a character, and imo RPs will always be of higher quality if you have some knowledge about what makes a character tick. 3: Sell the match. This is ESPECIALLY important for FACE characters. What does the match mean for your character, what is it going to do for them, why does it matter if they win or lose? If you can't explain this to your readers or the judges, they're not going to expect you to win and a lot of the times you're probably not going to win. Think about the time a face really wanted to get revenge or get back on a heel, think about the emotion and how motivated that character was/would've been, and you'll immediately see what I'm getting at. When there's a real motivation or intent behind a character, it adds layers to their shoot, their character as a whole, and gives them a real reason to be considered as a winner for a match. Keep in mind, you can still SELL as a heel. A match can mean just as much and be just as important to a heel, and in many matches can tip the scales in your favor if you do it correctly. The reason I say it's more important for a face though, is that many face writers can struggle to find a natural way to dig deep into their opponents, which is why adding an extra element of selling the match can be vital for them. 4: Sell yourself. This is ESPECIALLY important for HEEL characters. Why are you so good? Why are you going to destroy your opponent? How are you going to do it? Why should we believe you're going to win? Don't just say you're going to beat someone up and that you're better than them, give examples of why you're better. Is your character smarter? Cool. Tell us why and bring up moments that demonstrate that. Is your character bigger, stronger, a better technician, more experienced? Bring it up, let everyone know. Are you on a winning streak against some of the cream of the crop of your division or of the fed in general and you're going to use that momentum to keep winning? Be sure to mention it. This is how you gain credibility as a heel. The worst type of heel is the "Heel 101" guy who just says they're going to win, or that they're going to destroy you, but gives nothing of substance to back it up. These are the characters who get little credibility and struggle against top-tier heels/faces who know how to shoot. Selling yourself as a heel is what will make or break your character. As a face, this is still important, you need to make it clear that you're not gonna just be some pushover. Here would be my personal priorities as a shooter, and what I would work on if I wanted to be at my absolute best with a character: For Faces: Sell Match > Research Opponents / Character Dissection > Sell Yourself For Heels: Sell Yourself > Research Opponents / Character Dissection > Sell Match These in my opinion are the 3 vital areas of shoot that will help you be successful, but for different characters and more generally, different alignments, the priorities are going to change. For neutral characters, base it off of your characters personality. For instance, Tweener Shadowlove would want to sell himself more than sell the match, but a Tweener KOS would probably prefer to sell the match since he doesn't need to sell himself all that much. For some other aspects of shoot that can be important: Word count, themed/gimmick shoots and charisma are all things that can enhance or devalue your shoot, depending on what route you take. As a general rule, if you're super competitive and serious about winning as many matches as you can, I'd recommend at least 60% of your content be match relevant. Themed/gimmick shoots are excellent if pulled off correctly, but can really flop if you don't know what you're talking about or the theme doesn't make sense, or if it's just too cliche. Charisma for every character is something that can be developed by getting your characters voice down, like Corey mentioned. If your character has a unique voice and a clear, iconic style behind it, you'll immediately separate yourself from the pack. Sorry for the advice here being vague and not specifically targeted toward you, but I just thought I'd leave this here for anyone new or old to the fed who wanted some general tips that they can apply to their game. Anyone feel free to ask questions if you want things elaborated on. Absolute gold. This should be a pinned post. A must read.
|
|
|
Post by “The RevolutiDaddy” Wesley on Nov 25, 2019 21:13:13 GMT -5
Agreed! These guys just gave you the best advice you could ever receive, imo.
Just one last thing that may help: immediately find somebody to feud with! Getting your feet wet in a feud storyline with somebody is the absolute best way to shape your character how you want them to be perceived. Forgoing any title scene is worth having a solidified character on the card and the opportunities will present themselves to you. Go with the flow but do what feels right for your character.
|
|
|
Post by Odin Balfore on Nov 25, 2019 23:35:30 GMT -5
I give horrible advice lol
Lockhart gave the store away it seems
But we certainly don't do low brow basic shoot. I mean, sure at times but our core is sophisticated and cerebral. Our shoot is more thousand cuts.
You said u do psychological stuff, I'd have to read ur stuff to see
But depending on my mood, I'd make u regret calling odin old lol
You don't wanna shoot like the cool kids. U gotta shoot like you
|
|
|
Post by Odin Balfore on Nov 25, 2019 23:41:00 GMT -5
I wish I could contribute more but it's been covered. My shoot comes from wating denny's and drinking whiskey. That nightmare feul is no joke.
Read ppls work. See what u can do and make ur own
|
|
|
Post by Lissie Hope on Nov 25, 2019 23:53:55 GMT -5
I had to swallow a bitter pill last week, thinking the way I did things (the *cool kids' way*) was good enough to maintain the top spot in the company. I didn't realize I had to adjust. I didn't want to hear that I had to adjust. I had heard the "do what got you here" mantra enough times that I got cocky, and stubborn, and then was surprised why it didn't work out in my favor.
But Ryan and QDT right up there SHOWED me why I need to adjust.
Thanks, guys. A lot of that information that you just posted are things that I never really considered, and I'm certainly not going to take it for granted. I haven't watched wrestling in a decade so sometimes I forget that this isn't JUST a writing competition. Our characters are wrestlers. I need to work with that in mind, too.
Jacqui, and anyone else who struggles with shoot, this is really valuable advice.
|
|
|
Post by Odin Balfore on Nov 26, 2019 0:17:11 GMT -5
Frank grew up fighting cd, myself, and others. Frank's rps can be nasty
|
|
|
Post by Shadowlove on Nov 26, 2019 0:27:09 GMT -5
I don’t really do a ton of research on an opponent, for example, I read my opponent’s bio, their introductory role play and their current or past couple of role-plays just to be caught up to date of what their character is currently doing in the organization. For KOS, we have history so research wasn’t needed. For Abbi & Jacqui, I pretty much stuck to their bio and saw that they were a TW World Champion and a former contender of the TW Pure Championship. The shoot comes very naturally for me once I get into Shadow-mode. I can dissect a character pretty quickly by finding their character’s flawed nuances. Every character is a flawed character no matter how they’re written. Even though I lost, I thought my RP was well-balanced in character development and strong shoot. I like being 50/50 since I’m more descriptive in my role-plays and express their thoughts and actions more so than anyone else. Ryan was spot on with his general face/Tweener/heel shoot assessment that’s why I rent my GOAT status to him on occasion. I’m glad to see that you haven’t given up on the character since you’ve been doing her for going on 9 years. That means you enjoy writing Jacqui. Try to find a character that is a polar opposite of your character, characters like that are easy to shoot against and make for great feuds.
Remember that you’re starting in a new organization, so you’re not as established as KOS and Shadow, we’re considered a couple of top tier talents within AW.
Lissie Hope is the character that I would study the most, her character started right were you are, from the very talent packed bottom of the organization, and she turned her character into a World Champion. That’s a credit to the handler being an amazing storytelling type of writer.
|
|
Jacqui M
Professional Wrestler
Posts: 40
|
Post by Jacqui M on Nov 26, 2019 16:09:15 GMT -5
Thanks everyone! Trapson was not lying when he said you guys read feedback threads xD
The irony is, I was a fedhead. Twice. And I'll wax rhapsodic about the correct way to do CD. But shoot? I'm a B- player at best.
|
|
Jacqui M
Professional Wrestler
Posts: 40
|
Post by Jacqui M on Nov 26, 2019 16:14:41 GMT -5
Silly example of what I meant above
WHAT I DO: You know..you're a Champion right now. I haven't wrestled in 2 years. And you're probably coming in thinking I'm easy pickings. I mean, an old washed-up never-was? A journeywoman who hasn't won anything relevant in the last three years? A walkover for a young dude like you, right?
But just imagine. Just imagine what it would look like for you, if you overlooked this old lady...and you lost. You, the big up-and-coming Champion, just lost to a has-been. And she has YOUR belt that you promised to elevate. Some look for ya, huh, kid?
---------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT I CAN'T DO: You smell worse than the turd my dog left on the carpet. You don't even ride the short-bus - you get to school in a tricycle. Your mama should have thought twice before she let your dad go in bareback that time.
*And so on for like 1000 words. I'm already cringing so I'll stop here LOL*
These are obviously silly examples, but yeah. When I do the latter type of shoot, it's unpublishable and cringeworthy.
|
|
|
Post by 𝗖𝗢𝗥𝗘𝗬 𝗕𝗟𝗔𝗖𝗞 on Nov 26, 2019 16:17:33 GMT -5
That's the thing about finding your character. You nor your character would speak like that, so if you force it it'll be awful. You can be intelligent while shooting.
|
|
|
Post by Shadowlove on Nov 26, 2019 16:47:52 GMT -5
Silly example of what I meant above WHAT I DO: You know..you're a Champion right now. I haven't wrestled in 2 years. And you're probably coming in thinking I'm easy pickings. I mean, an old washed-up never-was? A journeywoman who hasn't won anything relevant in the last three years? A walkover for a young dude like you, right? But just imagine. Just imagine what it would look like for you, if you overlooked this old lady...and you lost. You, the big up-and-coming Champion, just lost to a has-been. And she has YOUR belt that you promised to elevate. Some look for ya, huh, kid? --------------------------------------------------------------- WHAT I CAN'T DO: You smell worse than the turd my dog left on the carpet. You don't even ride the short-bus - you get to school in a tricycle. Your mama should have thought twice before she let your dad go in bareback that time. *And so on for like 1000 words. I'm already cringing so I'll stop here LOL* These are obviously silly examples, but yeah. When I do the latter type of shoot, it's unpublishable and cringeworthy. Here’s an example of how I would’ve written your shoot:
“ You might just see me as a sorry assed newbie, Champ, but I’m an aged-to-perfection wicked mature little alpha bitch that’s gonna kick your sorry ass all over the ring this week on Monday Night Clash.”
You used around 97 words, and I condensed it down to around 37. That leaves 60 words for more shoot or character development even after going back and re-editing my work.
|
|
|
Post by Ned the Intern on Nov 26, 2019 17:15:59 GMT -5
You smell worse than the turd my dog left on the carpet. You don't even ride the short-bus - you get to school in a tricycle. Your mama should have thought twice before she let your dad go in bareback that time. I can't believe you straight up plagiarized me! I thought we were friends!
|
|